It doesn't have to be that way.  All someone needed to do is ask and we would find a way (which we will).  Instead, we have people who act like they're entitled to it. 

The issue isn't someone requesting something. The issue is people insulting us or acting like they're entitled to this sort of thing which they're not.

The community spirit, like you mention, is the key.  To me, it is the concept that we're all on the same team. We're all trying to do cool stuff together.  When people start accusing us of being malicious simply because the MyColors format is encrypted that's where the spirit, in my mind, goes away.  If someone's first gut reaction to something we do is that we're the bad guys, my response is "screw you guys" at that point.

Let's bottom line this: The Camoflage suite is one of the best suites that's ever been made. Ever.  And to see its release marred by people whining because the skin images are encrypted - when they could have simply ASKED us for them instead of flaming us - makes me want to just tell people where they can go. 

Glad you see things like this Brad, that's what i waited from Stardock.
I reacted when someone in the thread said maybe Stardock could select a few senior members who regularly make ports skins and let them have un-encrypted files, because i think everyone should have the possibility to begin in skinning and doing ports, that's the way i began myself in the early begining in doing ports from treetog's pixels (as a big fan of him), and that's the way the genese of community was.


Just hope you're not thinking about me. I just wanted from Stardock (and for everyone) a clear position (as english isn't my native language, it's fairly difficult to succeed to tell what i want to)

Okay, some points taken. I think I have to rethink a whole lot about my expectations. or maybe I just should arrive to the 21st century on this matter, I don't know.

Well...I hope I've never come across sounding like that...if I have it certainly wasn't intended. And I was already aware that you had mentioned something about trying to work out the image thing some how in another post or irc I think which is great! I already have a request about the skin images emailed to Angie days ago regarding this and I'm waiting hear back from her about it.



My one concern was how you would be able to deal with it since so many people create all kinds of extras for the skins. I for one would really appreciate it...but I would also understand if it became a pain to do. I can still create docks even from a screenshot, but not as many or be able to include some of the smaller details of the skin. In fact I already have a set of 4 tabbed and 4 side docks for the Camouflage skin made almost the same day the screenshot of it was posted, but I'm waiting to see if anything can be worked out regarding the images in case theres something in the skin I can use for additional docks.



I just hope we can keep the community spirit alive! Otherwise I have a $2000 deck of cards sitting on my desk.

FrogBoy, your responses in this thread are right on the money! I agree with you 100%.

neophil:

I wasn't saying that is all they should be available for. Just that if they were not going to be freely available then maybe as an alternative that could be done.
My thinking was that being able to get matching skins posted by a few select members would be better than not having any matching skins posted at all.


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I'm still waiting on any kind of a response to 5 emails asking for permission on a Dragon skin I started right after the Windowblind came out

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As for Brads post and the community.

I haven't been around the community long enough to know what it was like back in the beginning. For the most part I feel this is a pretty good community going here. But when you look at it you do see that out of the over 3 million members here it is mainly a group of a few hundred people (at most) that you see regularly participating in a positive manner. And I'm sure seeing the community go from the close knit place it was to this has to be frustrating.

Also as someone who has ran various different businesses over the years, unfortunately other peoples businesses, I completely understand and support his reactions to the negative factors in the community.

It's got to be nice to have the freedom to speak up about it rather than having to bite your tongue for the benefit of others. It's a refreshing thing to see.

I hope You dean't mean the few people that speak up once in a while and try to add some critics to the system. I still think it is not fair to call anybody that has some differing (if even strong) arguments a "whiner", even for being so long with this site and the company.

This is something completely different from all those Stardock haters that don't even have arguments for giving so much s**t to the software and/or the company. If it ends up having/wanting all brownnosers on this site, well, that is even more sad.

No I didn't mean that. As you said those are two different things.

If someone has paid for something and they are not getting what it was stated they are entitled to as of their purchase then they have a right to complain.

My comment wasn't in reference to them.

The people I was referring to are the ones who put down the company just for the sake of doing so, along with people who complain because they didn't do a thorough job of reading up on and checking out what it is they were buying exactly, and then turn around and bitch and complain because they didn't get what they assumed they were getting.

In retrospect I guess the way I worded it was a bit to generalized for the post I put it in. I was reading and responding to the thread but also at the time thinking of the other posts I've seen him make about those people.

But to call people a brownnoser or fanboy just because they happen to agree with someones opinions is also foolish.

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As for the topic that this all started with though.

I can see where it sucks to be using something and after years of using it being upset about things changing. Unfortunately that's the nature of life.

But looking at it realistically has Stardock ever made a promise that all graphics for all themes ever released would be readily available for anyone and everyones personal use?

As far as I'm aware I bought ObjectDesktop knowing that it was a utility that I could utilize with free themes I find or with themes that I purchase from Stardock and/or Master skinners. I don't recall ever reading anywhere that I would always have the ability to pull out any little pixel of those themes and do whatever I wished with it.

In the community spirit and as the system of sale is to give consumers the oportunity of having beta programs and by this way having the feedback to debug the apps, i think the answer should be yes, even if it's not written.
It's kinda contract between both: support us by paying in advance and we will give you better products (including better suites). Both parts are winning this way and everyone is happy   

Well that was not directed at You nor anybody in this thread but that is how things like this nearly always end, even with valid arguments. Maybe I din't make myself clear enough as english is not my native language.

There are TWO communities in my mind and there's a clash between the two.

The first community we'll call Skinning community 1999.  In the old days, the software developers made the software and either gave it away or sold it at a pittance. Skinners made the skins and gave them away. And the users either paid for the software or provided support, tutorials, etc.  It was a symbiotic relationship between the 3 groups.

The second community we'll call skinning community 2003. In this version, the community is populated by 2 groups. Producers and consumers where consumers outnumber producers by a massive margin.

The issue I have, especially with you (c242) is that you want to cherry pick the parts from the two groups. You talk about how you used to love Stardock.  Would that be the Stardock that just made software? The Stardock where the software had a lot of rough edges, was hard to use, but for techies worked out pretty well? And in exchange for software being rough around the edges the developers hung out in the forums on various sites interacting?  Because that's the way the unspoken social contract worked.

Now, the software is expected to be extremely well polished. Work on multiple versions of Windows in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. And Stardock is now expected to foot the bill for making the skins,  making the tutorials, providing the support, etc. But we're also not supposed to raise prices and our developers are expected to hang out on the forums even though they're being asked to do 5X as much work.

You can't have it both ways.  If you're a consumer, then you're a consumer.  Do you think Microsoft or Electronic Arts or whoever is going to hand out source code or the raw content for you to "mod"?  Of course not.  They're dealing with consumers. If you want to contribute, then work WITH us. 

Just don't sit back with a sense of entitlement saying "Well you used to do X!" because my response is "Yea, and the community used to do Y!". 

 

thats a great looking suite treetog

That's a pleonasm   

Well I do not for one see what the problem is with any of this. I have the new MY Colors Camo skin and for one it only needed a few things changed for my liking. Which is usually just my system and taste. Plus the progress bar images where the correct ones for Vista and was easy to do the tweaks for it.
I did not care for the encryption at first either. But after being able to do adjustments for any of the skins I buy from Stardock for My Colors. I'm a happy camper here. Encryption is there for one reason - to stop theft... we should all work together better here at this community to stop frauds as such from happening. It never would of turned out this way if we had tried to stop these people earlier. But we never care to much for anything till it truely effects us. But I use My Colors a lot here and I'm very happy with it.
I hear there is to be some new ones soon by DanilloOc. You can count on me buying those skins - I feel as he would - protected to sell it as there in the past a lot of the skins where misused and not with permission. Sad for a lot of good artist will give permission. But not for a My Colors theme - those are not just that of the artist.
I got only one more thing. If you do not like it - do your own work and see if someone rips yours? Then maybe you will want it encrypted too~!?

I don't know how many people noticed that statement from the Frog.

After I read the community concerns (which this isn't the only thread that contains them) I started asking around to see what we can do for the community.

At first, people would think that it should be easy just to give out the un-encrypted images, but it's not.  It requires extra man hours and testing as well as changes to our system and products.

This is what we are PLANNING (note that it is not set in stone!):

1) We are updating ThemeManager to bring it up to the current software releases.
2) For the INSPIRED MyColors themes only, there will be a .Suite file for OD subscribers discount sales.  This will NOT happen for IP related Themes.
3) OD subscribers will get a MyColors AND a Suite download when they purchase

Now, this will take some work and will take time to happen.  We will have to go through all the Themes and make .suite files out of them, update the store and web pages and get ThemeManager updated before this happens.

In the mean time, it looks like people are just going to have to work with what they can make.  I don't have a good way of distributing images, and I can't just hand them out to everyone.  They aren't currently in .Suite files, so that isn't an option, either.  

I'll have to think about that one.