From technology to politics to video games; these are the random thoughts of a geek with too much time on his hands
If we have to afford them certain courtesies, then they owe use a few too
Published on June 12, 2004 By Zoomba In Blogging
Six months after graduating from college I'm still looking for a job. Combine the fact that I'm not a programmer by any means and I'm a new grad coming into a terrible IT job market, and it's little surprise that I'm still out there beating the bushes. I've had a few good leads, several interviews and follow-up interviews and I've come within inches of a really good net security gig that fell through at the last second due to internal corporate issues. In the past 6 months I've developed an extreme hatred for certain practices employers practice when posting job openings and interviewing prospects. It's been drilled into my head that as an interviewee it is your responsibility to do many things in order to impress the employer, how you are honor bound to being available to them in a timely fashion, how if they offer you an interview it is your responsibility to clear your calendar if they pre-select a time, regardless of what it means for your current job or life in general.

Now, don't get me wrong... all that is fine and dandy generally, as they're essentially doing you a favor by offering you a chance to convince them to hire you. I do not begrudge my duties as an interviewee, and I gladly hold up all expectations on my end. That said however, there should be certain parts of the bargain that employers should themselves uphold.

1) Do not call people in for interviews for a different job than the one they applied for without telling them in advance.
I've been to a few so far where I was applying for an IT/Sys Admin type job, as that's what I'm most qualified for only to arrive at the interview room to find out that sorry, we had to close that opening but there's a slot here for a C++ and Java programmer... how's that sound? Umm... I'm not a programmer, it's pretty clear from the resume I sent you.

2) If for some reason the job becomes unavailable before an interview, please cancel
This goes along with number 1... on one occassion thus far I've taken time out of my day to go to an interview only to have someone sitting at the door to the conference room waiting to politely inform me that the job is no longer available,, but thank you for taking the time to come out, we appreciate it.

3) If I am expected to be on time (if not early) please do the same
I was floored when I had an interview where the interviewer was almost 45min late, and due to a tight schedule for the rest of the day, I lost that time out of my interview (I was the first slot of the day) and not given a fair amount of time to prove myself. They say it shows a lack of seriousness on the part of an applicant to be anything other than on-time or early, I think it shows a serious lack of professionalism on the part of an interviewer.

4) If you hold interviews, it's only fair to let an applicant know they were not accepted for the job
This is perhaps my biggest pet peeve of all in the job hunt process. Now, I can understand not sending me a rejection for a simple resume submission as often hundreds if not thousands of people send their resumes along for a job posting, so it's just not feasable to tell them all no. However, if you're taking the time to talk to someone, have them visit your corporate offices etc... then you should let them know if they aren't being offered the job. On several occassions I've been one of less than 4 applicants for a certain position, I've been flown in, wined and dined and given the tour, but I never hear back, and all attempts to contact them are ignored. This is perhaps the ultimate in unprofessional behavior and shows a complete lack of respect for all applicants involved. When you're actually interviewing people, the number is typically small enough to send them rejection letters (even if they're form letters). These people took time out of their lives to come see you, sometimes over great distances and they've endured being grilled by multiple people in hopes of landing a job with your company, the least you can do is let them know they weren't picked.

It seems like 99% of the people involved in the hiring process have forgotten what it's actually like to be on the other end of the system. I'm not asking for any special considerations, or to be given an easier time in the process. All I'm asking for is companies to treat applicants with respect greater than that you afford a bum on the street. I now know several companies that I will warn friends away from applying for because of how they've handled the interview process. We are expected to afford the employer every opportunity and every convenience and show a high degree of respect. Which is fine as long as it's mutual.

Comments
on Jun 12, 2004
Having just sat through an interview this morning, I have another to add:

5) Don't tell me office gossip at the interview.
I'm sure I'll learn it soon enough, but I don't want to know all the dirty laundry unless it pertains to my job. My interviewer was telling me all about how the person in the office behind her was surfing the 'Net instead of working and the other person in the office was out with a very personal disease I should NOT know about. Yech. I hope I don't get the job because I wouldn't want to work with a boss like that.

(Then again, I'm desperate, and I'd prostitute myself to pretty much any publishing company for a nice check.)
on Jun 12, 2004
Excellent article, Zoomba! It has been a long time since I have to go through that process, but I still remember some of the unpleasant events of those days. My son just went on his first series of interviews and ran into a #3.
on Jun 12, 2004
Here are my most recent employer/interviewee experiences, from both sides:

-I've been playing poker for a living since September. I'm registered with a bunch of recruiting firms so while I'm not actively searching I do get calls about jobs. I got a call 3 months ago about a database programming contract with the government. DTS and programming SQL Server stored routines, not my specialty but it all tastes like chicken to me. Anyhoo, I go in for the interview. The guy I'm replacing is the same guy I replaced at my previous job! I had gotten hired and he got his papers a few days later. He's a nice guy but a crappy programmer who I'd guess stretches his resume to get jobs that are over his head. I joked with the recruiter "I could make a career following this guy". I'm getting interviewed by two people, one a bearded French Canadian guy whose office is full of Harley Davidson stuff, and a fortyish Filipina who doesn't manage to crack a smile through the interview. I think their job titles are Director of this or that or Manager, but geek-wise I doubt these people could build a webpage. I get asked many technical question the Filipina lady is reading off a sheet, and she is unsmilingly writing down my answers. I guess she checks the answers later with the office's chief geek. Wouldn't it be easier to have the chief geek present for the interview process to see if I know my stuff? Nah, that would cut into management authority. Anyhoo, I don't get the job. No biggie, as it was not my technical specialty.


-This week I interviewed someone for my SuperSecret software project. I put a couple ads out and received about a dozen resumes. I interviewed a guy whose resume was similar to mine in experience. By asking a couple of questions I could tell this guy was full of shit regarding his technical experience within 30 seconds, so it was a non-productive interview. We spoke for about 10 minutes and the guy just didn't say anything that made me want to hire him. So I'm still looking. My project is in C#, a relatively new language so it's hard to find people with experience. I'd be happy to hire (and I'll be honest, I'll be paying $400 cash a week for 4 weeks to start, so it's not a huge deal) someone with no experience if they could convince me they are super smart and ready to work super hard. Did you know it is illegal to give an IQ test to an interviewee in Canada and USA? Geez, that's the first thing I need to know about an itnerviewee: is this person smart? It would make my job a lot easier if someone showed up at an interview with a certified intellectual quantity, like a GRE, SAT or LSAT.

on Jun 12, 2004
I feel your pain. I finished uni last year with all the hopes and dreams to start work asap... 6-7 months later... "still waiting". I have been to interviews, to training session on how to impress the interviewer, what to do what not to do. It sucks, I like what my mum said at a job interview once. "Unless this leads to a permanent position you can stick the job up your horses's a double ss. Next year she will be working for the company for 10yrs... There is no one way to do a job interview. As soon as the employer has seen you they have decided whether or not they are going to hire you. First impression and what not. I hate that arrive early to an interview stuff.... I get there early usually because I leave time to get lost not to sit in the waiting room being stared at by people as they walk in and out of the office....

I want an interview where the CEO/Head Person comes and greats me, has a coffee and gets to know me, not reask me the same questions i spent a day working on as "selection criteria"!!!!!!

The worse part is, I'm a Nurse... You think there are plenty of jobs for nurses but no. I have a job that starts 28th June and when did I apply for this job? September last year! The place wasnt slack at getting to me, I just have had a job application with QLD health for that long with no job offer until now. Thank you Mr Beattie!

TO make job searching all the more fun, now that i "have a job" in order for centrelink to keep paying until i start my job, i have to apply for jobs for another fortnight and just keep going until i can tell them where to stick the form... which To be honest if it wasn't for the nice lady on the phone, I'd have given them a demonstration. DOn't get me wring I'm a nice person, I just hate how centrelink treats you like your brainless then leaves you hanging....

*screams*

*hugs zoomba* You can do it! *insert other annoying sayings said by people who are employed to "cheer up" people without jobs*

THe funniest thing to do is cold canvassing, esp over the phone, you can really freak out the receptionists! The poor dears, I dont mean to, you just have to know practically everything about the person you talk to on the phone so if centrelink want to check if you really have rang the person they can identify them down to the mark on their heel.. Or so it feels like.

I better go now or i will continue with the rambling of a disgruntled unemployed nurse. "Oh, you'll have no problem getting a job as a nurse" grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

on Jun 12, 2004
One of the biggest problems I always had in conducting interviews when I needed to hire a new technical person was all the EEO crap. Being forced to interview a bunch of unqualified people just to "make the numbers right". I could normally look at a person's application and tell if they had the basic qualifications for the position or not. I like to weed out and get interviews down to the few best qualified but was always forced to interview a huge number of people to make EEO numbers. A bunch of crap, either you're qualified or you're not.

I recall a particular occassion where I had gone through the applications and there was one guy who really stood out. His background was an exact match for the opening I was trying to fill. I wanted to interview just him.He happened to be a black guy. I only mention this because it directly relates here.

Well, the HR department went nuts. "You can't interview just one person! You have to comply with the EEO guidelines. " says the HR Manager.

"He's the best qualififed" says I.

"You just can't do that. You have to interview X number of applicants" she says.

"Ummm, he's a black guy, and he's best qualified. Doesn't that help your precious EEO numbers?" I inquired.

"How do you know he's black?" she asks. "You're not supposed to know that ahead of time."

"Well, when he dropped off his application, it was kinda hard to not notice" I said "Nice guy too"

Well, when it was all said and done, I drudged through about a dozen interviews just to hire the guy I wanted in the first damn place. Delayed being able to hire him an extra week. Those other interviews were just for show and I really didn't have my heart in them.

It also wasn't fair to the other people who were called in to interview for a job I had already chosen a candidate to fill, but I had no choice but to keep the EEO people happy. Stupid really, and a waste of my time and theirs.
on Jun 12, 2004
I figured this would strike a note with some people here... especially those in the same situation as me right now.

Little_whip - I got some crap from American Express Financial Advising services like that... they refused to tell me what the program was until I basically forced them into it by saying if they didn't tell me what the job was right then and there that I'd hang up. They were shocked when I turned it down saying "I spent 4 years in college to get an IT major, I'd kinda like doing something related to that for a living" Their response was that well, lots of different people with different backgrounds come to work for them (lawyers, doctors, gas station attendants). They couldn't understand why I'd turn down such an amazing offer as theirs where I would spent several months training, on my own dollar, and then if I passed the test (which I also paid for) I'd get hired for a commission-based job. I've done telemarketing before and remember how much it sucked and how they screw you out of commissions left and right for little details... sorry, I'll stick with my part time job for now that at least guarantees I get a paycheck every 2 weeks.

MasonM - I get the feeling I fell victim to a similar situation to what you describe a few times... where it's obvious there are hard favorites going into the process and that I'm just there to fill out the numbers. It's not fair to either side in situations like that as it's wasting everyone's time and generally irritates all involved. I just wish employers could make that a little more clear going in, so I know if I have a snowball's chance in hell.

Keo Lin - Congrats on your job! Yeah, the crap you have to go through at times is just ridiculous... unfortunately it's an employers market right now so they can sit on their duffs as long as they like, be as underhanded and mean as they like because they know if they come back 6 months later and say "Hey, want a job?" chances are the person is so desperate they'll say yes regardless of what has been done to them. Oh, and I hate the annoying stuff people with jobs say too to cheer me up if I hear "It's all a matter of time..." once more, I may find a tall building and a rifle and start picking people off

on Jun 12, 2004
Yeah, I kind of got that impression as well, Zoomba that's why I related that particular experience. It sux but it's a sad reality. Good luck on the job search. I am relocating and job hunting myself so I'm sure I'll get the same wonderful experiences you have.
on Jun 14, 2004
I feel your pain and frustration. I've been job hunting for the last 3 months and have done countless interviews. What pisses me off is that I was working through a temp agency for this electrical supply place. I applied for the permanent position they had, went through the application and interview process. Needless to say, i didn't get the job. The boss at the electrical supply place had decided before i had the interview that they were't going to hire me on because it would cost them too much money. Plus i'm in college, so i'm not "reliable." And to top it all off--the asshole knew on a Monday who they were going to hire me because my temp agency left a message on my voice mail. I didn't check the message until Wednesday. On tuesday I asked the boss when they were going to make a decision and he said he didn't know yet. What a bunch of bullshit. This was last week wednesday. I still have to work here until Friday. It really bites having to work for someone who doesn't have enough balls to talk to his employees. WHy did i fill out the app and go to the interview??? it was a waste of my freaking time. I could have been looking for a new job.

I also hate when they drag out the time it takes to make a decision. 2 months is a long time to drag out an interview process.

I still can't figure out why i can't get a job. Every place I've applied at has turned me down I'm educated and always more qualified than need be for the positions. I hate looking for work, shit, i hate work in general.
on Jun 14, 2004
i loved your bit about the IQ test. I wish they would check IQ's cause then I might have a chance at a job. It seems like companies are never willing to take people without experience. I don't see why it matters because once they hire you they put you through hours of training reteaching you whatever you already knew...
on Jun 21, 2004
Here's an additional bit I encountered just the other day... a new employer pet peeve for me:

-If your correspondence is entirely via email, please send the rejection via email...
I recently went through the interview process with a large health insurance company, they were interviewing me for an IT Management program they were starting up.. I had driven to their site and everything for a second interview. I had been in regular contact with an HR rep via email for the past 2 months or so. When i returned from vacation I emailed her to ask how things stood and when I could expect to hear a decision... I never got a response. I find out a week later that my sister had been just tossing my mail into a box while i was on vacation and didn't bother to tell me... turns out there was a rejection letter in the mail.

If you are emailing back and forth with a candidate and they email you asking how things stand, if you aren't going to hire them, respond to them telling them that.. you never know if they ever got the letter, and sending a quick email back to them doesn't take much time (especially when there are only 12 candidates total)